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I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS

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I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by dodgysteve September 26, 2010 04:36AM reply | quote
posted by dodgysteve
HI I HAVE A COMPOSER USED A LOT FOR WEDDING PICS I DO LIKE THE POINT FOCUS BUT WOULD REALLY LIKE TO DO STANDARD TILT PICS ALSO LENSBABY SAY THERE IS NO NEED FOR STANDARD LENS ! (SOMEONE SHOULD EXPLAIN TO CANON AND NIKON WHERE THEIR GOING WRONG THEN !) SO HAS ANY ONE ADDED A NORMAL LENS FROM SOMETHING ELSE, IE FROM OLD SMALL PS ETC TO GET THIS EFFECT ON A COMPOSER OR IS IT ONLY ME THAT WOULD LIKE TO RECREATE THE MINIATURE PICTURE LOOK, IT WOULD SEEM THAT THE LUCKY 4THIRDS PEOPLE CAN FIT NIKON LENS TO DO IT (PERHAPS I SHOULD LOOK TO DOWNGRADE ALL MY CANON GEAR EH) ANY IDEAS
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by ranfoto September 26, 2010 09:48AM reply | quote
posted by ranfoto

Steve: I've been making my own optics to fit Lensbaby's for as long as there's been Lensbaby's......

You might want to check out my gallery and follow my old posts to see where I went wrong .

I also make my own Benders to get effects that I could not achieve with the Lensbaby line up.......but as time goes by Lensbaby adds new stuff that makes doing it yourself not worth the effort ......

You have to use longer focal length optics, like standard lenses used on 120 film cameras, then add conversion lenses to the front element to get the perspective you want to use.

The Composer is the best Lensbaby to use for this sort of project, but before the Composer was available I used the 3"G" Lensbaby for my platform .

Anything is possible if you are willing to work out the engineering ......I built myself a complete mini machine shop for doing these projects.....quite fun, but not cheap.

Good luck and happy Bending !
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by picnic September 26, 2010 11:17AM reply | quote
posted by picnic
I'm not quite understanding what you mean that Lensbaby is saying a standard lens ien't needed. Do you mean because the TT has a mount for mirrorless cameras. Check the genersl discussion snd find the thread about the TT. Craig explains the reasons.

i shoot with a Canon 45 TS and have rented the 24. Its one of my favorite lenses on a FF but boy, I enjoy using it on a live view m4/3rds with msgnification for manual focusihg. I shoot some with a Composer also but am looking forward to shooting with a 'regular' lens. I am also going to try using a lens adaptor to utilize my FD lenses. My adapter will be here the beginning of the week so I'll report back about that. i don't see much problem with that since many are stacking adapters. That will ooen up the field for lote of other lenses if it works.
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by dodgysteve September 27, 2010 03:07AM reply | quote
posted by dodgysteve
many thanks for responses guys, randy thats an awesome gallery of benders youve put together, i see where your going with the medum format answer i have made quite a nice tilt lens from an helicopter moveable vent with a bronica sq 80mm but would love to reduce the weight in bag during wedding shoot and figured i could just swop out from double glass to flat field, standard lens at say 30mm and do people in focus in centre and top and bottom out of focus ala canon tilt , in focus all the way across from one edge to the other, and not destroy people standing at edge ala lensbaby optics, hope this make more sense this time, if lensbaby can make it focus from its nodel point to film plane i cant believe theres not something out there to do the same but flat field, ive no aversion to canabalising a lensbaby lens to make one ! and if anyone is interested in seeing my air vent tilt lens just say and i;ll try to put some pics on ive never seen it done my way no matter how many google hacks i looked at. thanks for looking guys regards, steve
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by ranfoto September 27, 2010 03:39AM reply | quote
posted by ranfoto

Steve: One of the tricks of Bending is in making your own apertures.

You can Bend the light rays to manipulate apparent sharpness across different planes of focus.......isn't that what all this tilting of optics is about in the first place ?

By the way sharing your "heli-Oh-Bending" lens would be of interest .....might even lead Craig towards new ideas for Bending tools......

Glad to know you enjoyed looking at some of my images and tools for Bending aRt :)
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by dodgysteve September 27, 2010 04:31AM reply | quote
posted by dodgysteve
hi randy yes and no cos my bending is very staid compared to yours ! i just want the simple movable by tilt, plane of focus across the image to be as a high ish quality that i can chose to destroy or not ! and not have it distorted for me before i even start ! a bit like making a very good amplifier then "i" chose to distort it, but if its rubbish quality to start with you cant make it sound any better !!!!!
i will have to take some pics of my ball air vent tilt adaptor and lens and put it on sometime, i didnt think to do as i went along pics as once i started it just became a mission of finishing it then modding it once or twice (ok loads), i just wish i could find a metal vent instead of the plastic one i have
regards steve
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by dodgysteve September 29, 2010 02:35AM reply | quote
posted by dodgysteve
HI is there any special way needed to upload images as ive got my helibender adaptor pics but i would appear to be useless at uploads
regards steve
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by dodgysteve September 29, 2010 02:37AM reply | quote
posted by dodgysteve
oh it did take it but only the one
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by dodgysteve September 29, 2010 03:01AM reply | quote
posted by dodgysteve
oh ok sorry bout one at a time
THIS IS IF ITS NOT OBVIOUS! AN AIR EYEBALL VENT IN THIS CASE FROM A HELICOPTER BUT YOU MIGHT FIND SOMETHING LIKE THE EARLY MINI CAR VENT (EBAY) MIGHT ALSO DO THE TRICK BUT SUSPECT ITS A FAIR BIT BIGGER BUT THEN AGAIN HUUUGE TILT NO VINGETTE !
THE REST IS THE REAR LENS CAP FOR WHATEVER LENS YOU HAVE MINE IS BRONICA AND CUT APPROX 2INCH HOLE TO ACCOMADATE END OF EYEBALL VENT THE OTHER END IS OFF ONE OF THOSE CHEAPY CLOSE UP EXTENSION TUBES UNDO SCREWS AND REMOVE PLATE AND BITS AND FLATTEN FOO END OF EYEBALL VENT AND ATTACH AFTER DRILLING TINY HOLES IN SAME PLACES AS REMOVED AND SCREW IN WITH REMOVED SCREWS WHEN DRILLING HOLES MAKE THEM TINY BIT SMALLER AND THEY WILL CUT THEIR OWN THREAD AND TIGHTEN UP
I ALSO DRILLED SMALL HOLE IN THE SIDE OF OLD LENS END COVER TO PUT SMALL SCREW IN TO STOP LENS UNDOOIN ITSELF AND FALLIN OFF (COS IT DID ONCE !!! ) THE DISTANCE OUT TO GET FOCUS IS EASY DETERMIND BY TRIAL AND ERROR THEN I DOBBED ABOUT THREE SUPERGLUE SPOTS ON AND TRIED IT IF WRONG CRACK OFF AND TRY AGAIN ALLY SCREWS WERE FROM OLD FLASH BRACKET AND THEY ALLOW LOCKING OFF TILT UP/DOWN OR LEFT /RIGHT
THIS IS OBVIOUSLY NO CANON TSE BUT IT DOES WORK VERY WELL (BUT IT REALLY MAKES YOU WANT A REAL TILT SHIFT LENS )
HOPE THAT ALL MAKES SENSE (I USUALLY DONT) ANY QUESTIONS PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ASK
AND AS FOR MY ORIGINAL FLAT FIELD LENSBABY QUESTION THE TUMBLEWEED IS STILL DRIFTIN BY THE BOOR (EVEN IN WORTHING!!!)
REGARDS STEVE
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by Canonizer October 03, 2010 07:23AM reply | quote
posted by Canonizer
Quote
picnic
i shoot with a Canon 45 TS and have rented the 24. Its one of my favorite lenses on a FF but boy, I enjoy using it on a live view m4/3rds with msgnification for manual focusihg. I shoot some with a Composer also but am looking forward to shooting with a 'regular' lens. I am also going to try using a lens adaptor to utilize my FD lenses. My adapter will be here the beginning of the week so I'll report back about that. i don't see much problem with that since many are stacking adapters. That will ooen up the field for lote of other lenses if it works.

Unfortunately, using Canon FD lenses with the TT has substantial issues. When you adapt an FD lens to a Nikon mount, you will not get infinity focus unless the adapter includes a correcting glass element. If the adapter does use a glass element, this very seriously degrades the image quality, and also adds an additional 1.4x effective focal length to your lens. As the micro four thirds format already has its own 2x crop factor, things start getting crazy, in terms of effective focal length.

As example, you want to mount your Canon FD 50mm lens onto the TT. You mount the lens onto a Canon FD to Nikon mount adapter and, assuming you want infinity focus, the adapter includes its own lens, and you now have an effective focal length of 70mm. Next, you mount the TT onto your micro four thirds camera body, which has a 2x crop factor. You're now at an effective focal length of 140mm. I'm guessing that won't be a very desirable focal length for tilting, eh?

If you don't need infinity focus, you can get an adapter without the additional glass element, or some adapters let you remove it. In that case, you have a 100mm tilt lens.

Just some things to think about.
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by picnic October 03, 2010 10:45PM reply | quote
posted by picnic
My Fotodiox adapter came and, yes, it does have the additional glass but I don't find this much of an issue to be truthful considering the photographic style--usually wide open or stopped down just a bit, etc (if i want precise tilting for greater perception of DOF, then I go back to my 5D and EF lenses). Used it quite a bit this weekend. i had already sorted out the extension issues and find I like it best with my 24, 28 and 35s. I'll post some later this week when I finish processing in LR. The area of focus, where I can follow the wedge and put it where I want with care, is fine--particularly as you stop down, but that is less likely to be how I'll shoot with it. I can't say I'm unhappy at all. I do have a Nikon 35/2 due this morning but using the FDs gives me a nice FL range. Actually even the 50 is fine with a lot of the subjects I like to shoot so it really depends upon one's expectations, style of shooting, subjects, etc. I'm not planning to use it like I do my EF TS and i'm guessing most people that buy it aren't either. I think for most people shooting with a Lensbaby they are thinking in terms of a looser style and if they need 'precise' then they really do need to consider the high end tilt shifts or technical cameras.

Being able to switch from a lens with aperture control to the Focus Front quickly is quite nice in actual practice.
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by ranfoto October 04, 2010 07:10AM reply | quote
posted by ranfoto

I might remind you all.....that you can change these long focal lengths to a wider angle by adding conversion lenses to the front of your main optic.

Bending is about an aRtform and the effect you can create, if you want precise images then go with a tilt lens that was designed from the beginning to be precise .

When I added my Nikon perspective control optic to the 3G Lensbaby it was because I wanted a precise optic and the ability to tilt beyond what the Nikon engineers though was needed.

But.....I still consider it to be Bending, as I'm into special effects not just precise imaging......as it's always about the aRt of Bending for me !

Glad to see Benders are still adapting their own tools with a bit of help from Lensbaby products or as in Steve's case making his own special Bender from stuff never intended to be used to image with .....kewl and thanks for sharing your Bending adventures .
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by Canonizer October 05, 2010 09:39AM reply | quote
posted by Canonizer
Quote
ranfoto
I might remind you all.....that you can change these long focal lengths to a wider angle by adding conversion lenses to the front of your main optic.

Of course you can. You can slap on adapters and converters the whole day long. It will depend on what style of shooting you are trying to do with the TT. I am looking for more technical precision than any of the LB optics provide. That's the potential of the TT that attracts me -- I can now mount a "real" lens to a rotating tilt mount. That's exciting (and I already shoot a Canon 5D Mk II with the TS-E 24 and TS-E 90). Adding any other glass elements, as we know, skews the original formula and introduces all types of aberrations I am not wanting to include in my images.

For me, it's about gaining creativity, mobility and fluidity with tilt photography, and in the process, not having to overly compromise on the optic. It would be great to not have to use a tripod, and not have to tediously dial in the movements on three axes, as I do with the TS-E lenses. I really like having way more than the 8 degrees of tilt the TS-E lenses provide.

I find the blur of a tilted but high quality Nikon lens to be far more attractive than a LB optic. Perhaps that is where we differ.
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by ranfoto October 06, 2010 03:53AM reply | quote
posted by ranfoto

I find the blur of a tilted but high quality Nikon lens to be far more attractive than a LB optic. Perhaps that is where we differ

Could be....I enjoy Bending light with all kinds of different optics and with software....so I'm no purest when it comes to imaging, in fact I like to paint with old school brushes and oils sometimes.....

I adapted the 3G Lensbaby to a Nikon Perspective Control lens. This optic was designed to be tilted, but the tilt control had been long since removed when I acquired it, so it seemed a natural thing for me to mate the two into a more precise Bender......

As I've noted from day one here on this Forum......I think it's great that people find all kinds of ways to create images and make tools to share their ideas with.....it would be boring if we all did the same thing and created the same way .

Pick your own tools and optics and start sharing .....besides talk is easy.....it's the imaging that matters in the end, so have fun with it all !

I'm also into hot cars and racing...so I'll leave you with this Bender......it's what I like and it's what I do...:)
Re: I WANT STANDARD LENS TO DO NORMAL TILT PICS posted by Canonizer October 07, 2010 05:03AM reply | quote
posted by Canonizer
Quote
picnic
My Fotodiox adapter came ...

I look forward to seeing some sample images.

I too have an arsenal of Canon FD glass that I'd love to get onto the TT, but I expect the aberration will be unacceptable for my level of expectation. Plus the crazy focal length cropping -- even a 24mm becomes a (24*1.4*2) = 67mm. For tilting, I find a 24mm to 50mm effective focal length the most useful.

Also, if you could report what focusing range you get when you remove the Fotodiox adapter's correcting lens, that would be interesting. Obviously you can't focus at infinity, but about how far out can you focus?

Lastly, I have been shooting my Canon FD glass on my micro four thirds bodies via an adapter, with no correcting lens necessary. Have you tried that? I get good results.

Happy snaps.

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