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My LB dream

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My LB dream posted by rannestad February 22, 2010 07:08AM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

After making a teaser post approx. a week ago (See here), I will now reveal the dream I have had for several years.

(I will start out a bit technical, but if you can’t follow, please just skip the technical part)

The dream started when I got my first 3G back in 2006. I was so excited about getting this little gadget, and started to explore it both artistically and technically. One of the classic threads in the lb forum was the one where we discussed the shape of the field of focus. If you have the time, then enjoy reading through the whole thread. I get sentimental when doing so:) My contribution to the discussion was to measure the circle of confusion, which is a measure of unsharpness. The result is a curve very close to a parabola, as seen in the images (re-posted from that thread).

The parabolic shape of the field of focus is what makes the classical LB’s create those unique images. The difference between the plastic optic, single optic and double optic is the absolute sharpness, but the relative sharpness in the image follow a parabolic shape.

I really admire the work of many people here at the forum. I have seen great portraiture with plastic optics and single optics. For me, the double optics is on 95% of the time, when using a lensbaby. (as you will see later, I may have got an eye opener towards the soft optic though).

For commercial work (typically portraiture and weddings) I have used the double glass optics, but most clients think it is too extreme. For my personal photography I have done lots of LB images, but sometimes I also lack a more “normal” lens, or a lens with a different way of creating the selective focus. This brings me back to the dream, which is a sharp lensbaby optic with a flat field of focus. The fisheye optic is of this type, but too special for many cases. The soft focus optic is also (as far as I know) a lens with a flat field of focus, but as the name implies, is too soft for many situations.

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2010 06:13PM by rannestad.
My LB dream - II posted by rannestad February 22, 2010 07:10AM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

A tilting lens with a flat field of focus can already be purchased outside the LB portfolio, either as an original lens or as I have done: put a Hartblei tilt adapter on a medium format lens with a “Pentacon Six” mount. See the images. (For your information, the images are made with the soft focus optic and a composer.)

Whether you choose the original Canon/Nikon (and possibly others) type of tilt/shift lens or the Hartblei/Pentacon six is mostly determined by your wallet thickness. A Canon/Nikon type is a $2000 investment, whereas the Hartblei/Pentacon six is a $200 (or slightly more) investment (used on ebay). For it’s designed purpose, the original lenses are superb to everything else, but I claim that for “less scientific” purposes such as portraiture and artistic images, the spec of a tilt lens could be more relaxed.

Before boring you too much with technicalities, why not explore the Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 65mm f2.8 with a Hartblei Adapter?

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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My LB dream - III posted by rannestad February 22, 2010 07:11AM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

First off are some landscape type images. As you see selective focus is very well achieved by the tilt lens, although the look of it is slightly different than what we are used to with a lensbaby. I think the oof areas are beautiful, don’t you think?

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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My LB dream - IV posted by rannestad February 22, 2010 07:12AM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

Now, let’s put a human being into the equation

BTW. where did the global warming go? We have had freezing temperatures for two months here in Denmark. I have never experienced that before.

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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My LB dream - V posted by rannestad February 22, 2010 07:13AM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

In the teaser post I also promised some color images.

In these images you really see the difference between eg. the double glass optic LB and the tilt lens with flat field of focus. I love it though…

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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My LB dream - VI posted by rannestad February 22, 2010 07:14AM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

Now let’s compare with a flat field of focus lensbaby optic, the soft focus. Getting the best out of these images, I needed to give it a romantic feel.

Even though the comparison is not done in a scientific manner, you can clearly see the difference between a soft focus flat field of focus and a sharp tilt lens, also flat field of focus.

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2010 06:13PM by rannestad.
My LB dream - VII posted by rannestad February 22, 2010 07:15AM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

Summing this up, why do I think a sharp LB with flat field of focus would be a great lens?
Here are some points. Please let me hear your opinion.

*Size. A lensbaby will probably be much smaller than a dedicated tilt/shift or a medium format lens with adaptor. The reason is the relaxed spec on “some” parameters.
*The composer is already designed for tilt, and is much more flexible than the hartblei adapter and the original tilt/shift lenses.
*The muse is the “perfect” lens for tilt. I love the squeeze focusing of the muse (and older lenses). It is so dynamic. A fast f2.0 lens on a muse would be a hit, and then add the feature of tilting!!
*Assuming f2.0, it will be the fastest tilt lens on the market (can probably only be achieved because of relaxed spec, and may be a difficult one)
*The aperture system opens up the possibility for custom apertures

Craig and his team is probably already working on some great lenses for future release, maybe something even better than a sharp lens with flat field of focus. What about a sharp lens with out of focus areas as soft as the soft optic lens? Now that would be unique:)

Have a nice day, and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Bjorn

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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Re: My LB dream posted by oliver tudoras February 22, 2010 07:17AM reply | quote
posted by oliver tudoras

interessting

goodnight my friend :-)

oliver

[olivertudorasphoto.jimdo.com]



"some people make the world special just by being in it "
Re: My LB dream posted by rannestad February 22, 2010 07:20AM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

Thank you. It is already way too late. Good night to you too.

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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Re: My LB dream posted by Lorna Taylor February 22, 2010 07:47AM reply | quote
posted by Lorna Taylor

This is so cool!!!!!I want one!And I agree it is not global warming it is global freezing except where I live though!!!
Re: My LB dream posted by doro February 22, 2010 08:01AM reply | quote
posted by doro

yes! :)

have a wonderful day!

[www.dorothee-rapp.de]
Re: My LB dream posted by RichB February 22, 2010 08:36AM reply | quote
posted by RichB

I'm ready for whatever the Lensbaby team develops!

Rich
Re: My LB dream posted by Adriana_G February 22, 2010 06:47PM reply | quote
posted by Adriana_G

Wow, thanks so much for all this information - a lot of it is a little technical for me, but I get the gist of what you're suggesting. To summarise: I would like one of these!!! What a fabulous invention :))
Re: My LB dream posted by kmac February 22, 2010 09:25PM reply | quote
posted by kmac

thanks for sharing - very interesting.
Re: My LB dream posted by rannestad February 23, 2010 05:16AM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

I am glad you like it, and sorry for the techicalities, but I can't stop :) That is actually what I like about photography, the mix between art and engineering... Have a nice day.

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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Re: My LB dream posted by pkk February 23, 2010 06:40AM reply | quote
posted by pkk

Yes Bjørn, you got something relevant here. But the dreamlike and artistic photographs the Lensbabies give us, can't be reproduced by a sharper and more colorcorrected lens, imo.
Take a closer look at the plastic Lomo lens with fixfocus, or other Lomo ones with only near and far distances, fitted for Canon and nikon slrhouses.
If you can transform the Lomo fixfocus into the Lensbaby, and still have the possibility to use the tilt shift Hartblei adapter, and use Lensbaby glass, you've invented my dream lens. A great lens for streetphotography.. I'll order a 35mm, and a 50 mm..
Peter
Re: My LB dream posted by popquiz February 23, 2010 08:54AM reply | quote
posted by popquiz

Wow, so you're doing technical research, engineering, and marketing research for free? Or shall we say for the love of the LB. Very interesting read and viewing. I like your idea for a lens with a flat field of focus.

...it's like nailing JELL-O to a tree!

Glen Copeland
aka: PopQuiz

Join Lensbaby Addicts at: [www.facebook.com]
Re: My LB dream posted by rannestad February 23, 2010 03:06PM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

Thank you Peter and Glen.

Yes, Glen, I am doing all this for free. Hopefully it will bear fruit:)

Regarding your comment, Peter. I agree that a sharp flat focus plane lens cannot reproduce the dreamlike effect of the single glass, plastic soft focus and zone plane. That is not the intention either. If you want this dreamlike appearance, well, there are plenty of tools in the lensbaby toolbox already.

The latest lensbaby release, the fisheye, show that Lensbaby is more than just dreamlike, soft images. As far as I see, a sharp tilt lens would be a fantastic tool for artistic images.

Thanks for your comments. This is the type of discussion I am looking for.

Bjorn

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2010 09:54PM by rannestad.
Re: My LB dream posted by Emma_THS February 24, 2010 12:03AM reply | quote
posted by Emma_THS

Wow; interesting. I think it would be a great addition to the LB line--I'd definitely buy one. I'd have to buy a new camera bag just for all my lenses, though. XD

[tolhorse-studios.blogspot.com]
Re: My LB dream posted by Artificient February 24, 2010 04:04AM reply | quote
posted by Artificient

I was looking on eBay for the Hartblei tilt adapter or at least something like it. I'm not finding any adapters at all, just tilt/shift lenses. I know I have seen these on ebay & other sites before, but I forget the words to use to search for them. Maybe you could help me?

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www.Artificient.DeviantArt.com

6 is afraid of 7 because 7 ate 9. The police took 8 & 10 into custody under suspicion. They figured it must have been 8 or 10 because they were right next to 9 when it happened. The police told 8 & 10 how they found 9's remains half eaten in an ally...
Re: My LB dream posted by rannestad February 24, 2010 04:08AM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

Hartblei tilt adapter for pentacon 6/Canon EOS:
[cgi.ebay.com]

Lenses for the adapter:
[shop.ebay.com]

Does this help?

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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Re: My LB dream posted by Artificient February 24, 2010 04:18AM reply | quote
posted by Artificient

Thanks, I'll check the links, I use Both CANNON Rebel K2 & 30D though, so I would need to see if the have that mount type.

Edit: Nevermind, I checked out the links to see they are for CANNON, Thanks a lot.

Edit: So would I be able to use the adapter with any of my lenses with the Cannon mount or just the Pentacon lenses? I was browsing around & found a Pentacon on Ebay. I wasn't sure if that is one of the tilt/shift adapters or not.

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www.Artificient.DeviantArt.com

6 is afraid of 7 because 7 ate 9. The police took 8 & 10 into custody under suspicion. They figured it must have been 8 or 10 because they were right next to 9 when it happened. The police told 8 & 10 how they found 9's remains half eaten in an ally...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2010 04:33AM by Artificient.
Re: My LB dream posted by rannestad February 24, 2010 04:44AM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

I need to clarify a couple of things here. You cannot use your Canon EOS lenses with that adapter. The adapter is for Pentacon six -> Canon EOS only. In fact it is impossible to add a tilt adapter to a Canon lens if you want to use it on a Canon. The reason is register distance (the distance between film plane and lens mount). You need a lens which is designed for a longer register than the EOS mount.

The EOS mount has a register distance of 44mm, whereas the Pentacon Six has a register of 74.1mm, so you can add 30mm in between. The 30mm is suitable for the Hartblei adapter. Was that clear?

A list of mounts and registers: [www.markerink.org]

The pentacon you refer to is not a tilt adapter (as far as I can see)

Bjorn

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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Re: My LB dream posted by Artificient February 24, 2010 05:12AM reply | quote
posted by Artificient

Thank you, you are very clear.

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www.Artificient.DeviantArt.com

6 is afraid of 7 because 7 ate 9. The police took 8 & 10 into custody under suspicion. They figured it must have been 8 or 10 because they were right next to 9 when it happened. The police told 8 & 10 how they found 9's remains half eaten in an ally...
Re: My LB dream posted by picnic February 25, 2010 12:56AM reply | quote
posted by picnic
Thank you. I suspect I would buy your 'dream'. I shoot with a Canon 45 TS on my 5D--and often just like to move what I call the 'wedge' of focus around--which one can't do with the LB (I have the Composer for my m4/3rds cams). I can 'select' an area of focus, but as you say, its quite different from a flat plane. I've been looking at a tilt adaptor for a number of legacy lenses for my m4/3rds but haven't committed and am still choosing to use my Composer--and with the FE, its not that 'fishy' on the 4/3rds sensor--and is a nice 24mm FOV (relative to my 35mm FF).

I'll keep watching this thread.

Diane
Re: My LB dream posted by Craig (Admin) February 26, 2010 02:06AM reply | quote
posted by Craig

Great thoughts Bjorn,

The more selective focus options, the better.

We are working on some fascinating new optics for the Optic Swap System.

I hope you all will agree when they are ready for prime time.

I'm enjoying the discussion in the meantime.

Craig

You could not step twice into the same rivers; for other waters are ever flowing on to you.
Heraclitus of Ephesus
Re: My LB dream posted by rannestad February 26, 2010 02:58AM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

Thank you for becoming a part of this discussion too, Craig! Your words are exactly what I want to hear. I am sure you are working on something which totally surprises us all. In the meantime I am exploring the flat field of focus oprions.

Today I have been modifying some optics to get a flat field "muse". More update when I have more images...

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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Re: My LB dream posted by sam (Moderator) February 26, 2010 04:09AM reply | quote
posted by sam

That's a wonderful Dream, Bjorn. Who knows? Sometimes dreams do come true! Thanks so much for sharing your creative vision, and your amazing photos!

Sam

see with the eyes of a child
Re: My LB dream posted by rannestad February 26, 2010 06:46AM reply | quote
posted by rannestad

Thank you Sam

I am thrilled to hear this, and thank you for your kind words about my images. I appreciate that.

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My website: [www.fotoaalborg.dk]
Blog (English): [www.retrofoto.dk]
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Re: My LB dream posted by Crabcakes February 26, 2010 07:41AM reply | quote
posted by Crabcakes

Wonderful dream bjorn--I think we have seen many dreams and many roads in the last three years (hard to believe it's been that long). And yes, I too often go back to that thread and re-read it....nostalgia...have had the same thoughts re:a flat field-of-focus (vaguely...) since my introduction to the SF Optic as well...though not the technical where-with-all to come close to your dream...well-spoken and I can't wait to see what the Portland Dream Team has in store...whatever it is, I'm sure it will be wondrous...

Hope you are well,

Johnny Crabcakes

"Failure is the key to success;
Each mistake teaches us something."
--Morihei Ueshiba



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2010 04:03PM by Crabcakes.
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